Interview with Gary Peters, Founder and Chief Executive of ICP Search.
ICP Search is a multi-award-winning executive search and talent organisation launched in 2001 providing bespoke talent solutions to the advanced and emerging technology markets worldwide. Gary Peters is also founder of LoveLocalJobs.com which has become a household name across the region providing an eclectic mix of proactive search solutions in Accountancy, Finance, Legal, Sales, Marketing, Operations, Technology, Human Resources and Executive. He is also Co-Founder of Be the Change, an inspirational employability and career program which has positively changed the lives of thousands of young people here in the UK
Nicholas:
I’m curious about this move fully away from office working to home working in this new setup. What made the decision for you?
Gary:
We’ve downsized the company over recent years, we got too big too quickly a few years ago. Did an MBO that failed. I inherited a lot of people that I didn’t know. I was too detached from my business, in that I was running Love Local Jobs as opposed to ICP Search, which is the primary business that brings the money in. And I had to get hold of it again. But over recent years, the request for remote working has become louder and louder, albeit pre-COVID, it was relatively faint.
Nine times out of ten, remote working was off the agenda, unless it was for a company that didn’t have an office in the first place. In which case, it was very cool to shout about not having an office because they were saving a lot of money in rent, which leads to the next point.
It’s a huge cost saving, of course, for businesses of all shapes and sizes. Pre-COVID, it had been on our radar, we had one or two people that did have flexibility. I think, if we’re honest, it was a case of can we really afford not to be together. Because a key part of recruitment is the collaboration of people and ideas and teamwork. I know Zoom has been around a few years, but it hadn’t really kicked off, and most human beings don’t like being sat in front of a video having a call. Albeit the newer generation don’t mind a selfie or two, or 10, every 10 seconds. Most human beings, even the future generations, don’t like video interaction if it’s serious. If it’s messing around, it’s fine.
So, it wasn’t really seen a lot a few years ago. But of course, it’s come to the surface a lot more. Anyway, it was on the radar, but we didn’t really give it much serious thought. We were more interested in a four-day work week potential, and we explored that, but it didn’t work for us. Fast forward, such an important year, being the year of COVID, our team are in truth now more collaborative, we’re able to see what each other does in a lot more detail and ask specific questions without distraction.
We’re making more in the way of efficiencies and productivity…and money. We’re happier, our wellbeing is better. Alongside hybrid working, we’ve facilitated, albeit, we’ve got core hours, if you’ve got things to do as a parent, as a health fanatic, as a person who doesn’t do particularly well in mornings, whatever it is, just chill out in the mornings and come on the boil when you’re ready. And the same mid-afternoon and the same in the evening. Do what you’ve got to do and try your absolute best and the results will come.
Gary:
So, so long as that mantra is in place, of getting the job done, and being driven and being motivated and working as part of a team, it will work. And it certainly has. But it’s not without consequence. We’re early days in this, so I’m not getting cocky and saying, “It’s brilliant. It’s going to work forever.” I don’t know that it is, I’m still 50/50 on it. But for now, it’s working. We are missing each other. Because of the COVID restrictions right now, we’re not going into the office unless it’s essential, and only the key people to that specific requirement will go in, as opposed to everyone. So, the greater team is not meeting and we’re missing that. Maybe we’re missing, through collaborative working, on results, but that’s not evidenced itself yet.
Nicholas:
You’ve suggested then that people are more flexible, people can get the work done better, they can do it more on their terms, they’re healthier, they’re fitter, they’re wellbeing’s higher because they’re looking after themselves. They’re not wasting time traveling to and from work, they’re not stuck in an office all day. They’re all pluses at this stage. What are the minuses?
Gary:
Well, we had a call today. Caught up on time management. And it’s quite evident that, whilst we’re getting more done, in the time that sits in between an urgent task and a non-urgent task, the Pringles tub could be quite easily eaten up. Maybe not the tub, but certainly the Pringles in it. Maybe it’s easy to daydream out the window, maybe it’s easy to go and do something because you’re bored. That time seems to be appearing because that’s when somebody would go over to somebody’s desk and have a chat or want some interaction. We’re craving human interaction and that’s just raised itself today. Not as an: “Oh my God. This can’t continue”, but just as an: “Okay, how are we going to combat those moments of missing interaction with someone?” Because, yes, we can call each other on video or phone or whatever, but you then have that barrier of: “Am I disturbing them?” So that’s quite a new one today, that was quite interesting.
Nicholas:
So, do you think people might be using a different model for prioritizing? Rather than what their job needs, what the results need, they’re prioritizing based on what’s easiest to do. “Well, if I’ve got these tasks, I don’t need to talk to anyone, I don’t need to set up an appointment, so I’ll just get this lot done rather than what actually needs to be done in the longer term.”
Gary:
It’s a tricky one, because I was thinking that exact thing today. Time management, pre-COVID, post-COVID, pre-hybrid working and all the rest of it, is poor in most people, right? You do the course, you watch the eat the frog video and you go, “Right, I’m going to eat the frog every day.” Then as each day goes by a percentage of that importance wears off, before you forget all about it again, right? Until you get to an age, like maybe you and I, where we’re pretty grey. Well, you’re not, but used to be maybe. So, it kind of ingrains itself in you. What came from the call was that our time management isn’t the same for everyone. Some people are good at it, some people are bad at it.
Where it gets complicated is that they’re at different stages in their careers. It would be easy to think that a company can just come in and go, “Right, this is how you do your business.” But then you flip into a micromanagement model, and you almost defeat the whole purpose of having hybrid working in the first place. Because you’re going to belittle some people and compress some people down into this place where you’re saying: “Why are you doing that?” Whilst helping others. So, it gets overly complicated on how to get the best out of individuals. I think it’s complicated because I haven’t gone there to work out how to do it best. As I speak, I think that it comes down to smaller groups of teams, being led by whatever level of managers or team leaders or mentors, just to check in with one another and share best practice. But we’re not there yet because the challenge highlighted itself today.
If you’re a manager with 10, 15 people, arguably that’s too many in any case, but let’s just go there, that’s too many people to be checking in with daily on a video call, because the quality time that you’re going to have with each individual is going to be extremely poor. So, the best practice of sharing, checking in on somebody’s wellbeing, their time management, their daily activities and where they’re at, should be maybe shared amongst more people now, depending on the size of the organization, so that there’s a better quality of time with those people who will otherwise be forgotten about.
Nicholas:
Oh, so it doesn’t have to be the team leader.
Gary:
No.
Nicholas:
One person for this aspect, one person for that.
Gary:
I think it’s time, I think it’s time. Yes. And I think by doing that, you empower those people who end up daydreaming out the window, because they’ve done their work and they’re a bit bored, they may be craving something else. Whereas, in the office, maybe they could go and ask for it. So yes, I think it’s going to get really complicated. But of course, right now, it’s exciting. We can work from home, we can walk the dog, we can go to the gym. We can do all those things we’ll get the job done. This isn’t a real world now.
Nicholas:
Do you think the fact that we’ve all got COVID in common right now makes a difference? Because now, you and I come online, we’ve got a common subject of conversations, COVID: “How’re you doing, how’s your hair? In a year’s time, I might be in a Café Nero on a headphone, you might be there, and we haven’t got COVID in common, yet we’re not together. What do you think the impact of it not being COVID anymore, in a hybrid situation, is going to be?
Gary:
I suspect that we may all go back to normal quick enough, and greed will take the lead in many organizations and all of this may go out the window, and a lot of people won’t care about all the good things that have come out of COVID. There’s been lots of awful things of course with COVID, of course there have. But I suspect that a lot of people are doing it, or putting in good measures now, as a form of survival, right?
I think a lot of good is going to come of the awfulness that we’ve all been through. And I think good businesses, that are going to thrive on the other side of this, will be putting in place practices like we are putting in now to adapt to the change and get the best for the people and the business. But it isn’t just a case of working four days a week, or being a hybrid model, because the procedures and the efficiencies and the clarity underneath that, of how it will work best for each individual, is imperative, as opposed to, we’re a business that just lets people do what they want.
We had all that three, four years ago, with bean bags and ping-pong balls and whatever else that people introduced to the office. It just goes back to that Maslow’s Theory of Need, where, when you get there, it’s not it, is it? What makes you happy is love, family, friends, the basics. And I think that’s what companies need to be concentrating on right now.
Nicholas:
Well, let me just ask you something. We’ve been talking a lot of talk with companies about business soul, the concept of business soul. What does the concept of business soul mean to you?
Gary:
Well, what is soul, that’s another hour, isn’t it? But soul, for us, our soul is clarity of purpose, clarity of shared values, clarity of where we’re going, which instills trust. If we trust each other, we can carry on the model that works and we’ll be incentivized to make it work for one another. So that’s soul for me, and that’s the thing that I’m concentrating on right now, by recruiting the right people and getting the best out of the people that work for the team that we’ve got now.
Nicholas:
You mentioned your new format is going to be fully homeworking plus team meetings in some good venues. Talk a little bit about how you see it working.
Gary:
We still have an office now that we need to let, and we can use it as and when we need it. When that goes, we’ll probably find a core hub, a lot smaller than what we have now, that people can leave their stuff in and it’s their home, if you like. ‘The hub of love’ is its nickname. We don’t have to be there all the time. We’ve got members of staff in Crawley, near London, in Eastbourne, in Chichester and all over the place. So why don’t we go and have half a day, or a day in venues that are near them that are great. If you take an average office size, let’s call it 1,000 or 1,500 square feet. In Brighton, that’s going to cost you. If you get rid of those costs, there’s some excess cash there, if your business allows it, to go and have a day a week in an incredible venue. Somewhere in a Goodwood or Ashford Forest, or wherever it may be.
Nicholas:
Amex Stadium?
Gary:
Amex Stadium. Wherever it is, book the day out, have your team meetings, catch up on numbers, catch up on purpose, catch up on soul, find out how each other is, share good food, have a drink, get out. Now, I’m talking about an organization that can do that. We’re predominantly office based, and I know that can’t work if you’re in medical, if you’re in construction for example, there’s pros and cons to every industry. But in the industry that I’m in, I couldn’t think of a better way to do business and meet up with one another, rather than being tied to this same place that you must commute to each and every day, when that is incredibly boring, and it doesn’t have to be like that anymore.
Nicholas:
I suggested to Paul Barber, the CEO at Brighton about turning all those lounges into small versions of what you’re talking about, running 24/7 between match days.
Gary:
Yes, why not? Why can’t pubs do that in their function rooms?
Nicholas:
Yes.
Gary:
They’re empty all the time.
Nicholas:
And there’s all these department stores in the high street as well, you’ve got the car parking there.
Gary:
Yes. It’s going to happen. I thought I was being unique when I thought of that, but now you’re doing it as well. We can’t be the only two, can we?
Nicholas:
No, the high street’s the perfect thing. Leisure, local businesses coming, trading, market stalls, things like… It’d be fantastic, wouldn’t it? Bill Grimsey is a real champion in this area, and John Cauldwell.
Gary:
Yes.
Nicholas:
Thanks Gary. Take care. See you soon.
Gary:
Good to speak to you.
This interview is one of 66 I’ve now completed this past year with a mix of past customers and other leading industry figures. Do connect with me on Linked In or get in touch via our website if you’d like to know more about the research findings and/or explore how to drive your business forward…with soul.
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